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	<title>Comments on: Waltz with Bashir</title>
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	<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/</link>
	<description>from the frontline of reality</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Israeli civilian</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44459</link>
		<dc:creator>Israeli civilian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44459</guid>
		<description>I don't support of killing innocent  Palestinians and I thing that case of the school was an accident ,it doesn't help Israel . I see the Hamas as  the main responsible for this war, because with the attacts of Hamas before it's seemed such as the Hamas force Israel to react 70 rokets a day it's something  imposible to ignore. 

It is okey to  criticize Israel but if I compare the war in Gaza to  the war Iraq  or the war Georgia the number of the civilians who killed in Iraq and Georgia  extremely higher than the civilians who killed in Gaza and still there is more criticism about Isreal.
Perhaps it easier to criticize small country than criticize empires. To criticize it's okey but it's should be equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t support of killing innocent  Palestinians and I thing that case of the school was an accident ,it doesn&#8217;t help Israel . I see the Hamas as  the main responsible for this war, because with the attacts of Hamas before it&#8217;s seemed such as the Hamas force Israel to react 70 rokets a day it&#8217;s something  imposible to ignore. </p>
<p>It is okey to  criticize Israel but if I compare the war in Gaza to  the war Iraq  or the war Georgia the number of the civilians who killed in Iraq and Georgia  extremely higher than the civilians who killed in Gaza and still there is more criticism about Isreal.<br />
Perhaps it easier to criticize small country than criticize empires. To criticize it&#8217;s okey but it&#8217;s should be equal.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44457</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44457</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Israeli civilian:&lt;/strong&gt;
Yes, I do know that Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel for years. This is not a secret being hidden away by an anti-Israeli press. It is a well-known fact, and it is regularly mentioned in newspaper reports.

I disagree with most of the arguments made in the Jerusalem Post article. For example:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hamas' deliberate use of human shields, which makes civilian casualties inevitable&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-- So if some Hamas gunmen take up their positions in a building full of civilians, then the Israeli Defence Force (IDF), have *no choice* but to blow up that building? Even if it is a school?

&lt;blockquote&gt;"Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas!" was the slogan shouted at a Dutch rally against the Gaza war last week.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-- This kind of crazed anti-Semitism is in no way representative of Westerners who criticise Israeli military actions. Just because you can cite one example of extreme anti-Semitism, this doesn't mean that all or even most criticism of Israel is of this type. One protestor's racial hatred doesn't invalidate everyone else's reasonable criticism.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is a known double standard among some Westerners whereby only Western actions merit condemnation, while non-Western thugs get a pass.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-- I think that this bias or "double-standard" in protest is quite reasonable. I wouldn't bother to protest the actions of Islamic fundamentalists, dictators, Kim Jong Il etc - because it is already clear that I don't support them. Politically, economically, culturally, I have nothing to do with them. But when a Western or Western-backed government commits atrocities then I am somehow implicated. Especially if the government of my own country is directly or indirectly involved. So on these occasions I need to protest to show that I don't support or accept these actions. And I have much more chance of influencing my own goverment, then influencing, say Hamas.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hence the underlying message of these demonstrations is not "we object to killing Palestinians," but rather "we support killing Jews."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-- No, that's not what I think. And most other critics of Israel don't think this either. 

I don't like Hamas. 

I think that the killing of Israeli civilians is a stupid, brutal strategy by a bankrupt military force. 

But there's no way that these actions justify all the many types of violence that the Palestinians are subjected to by the IDF.

I apologise if my references to the Holocaust bring up painful memories for you. I didn't mean to cause offence. I only mentioned the Holocaust because this comparison with recent Israeli military actions seemed to be suggested at certain points in the film Waltz with Bashir. I'd never thought about this comparison explicitly, so I wanted to use the film as an opportunity to explore whether I there was some sort of unconscious connection here, hidden beneath my thoughts about Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Israeli civilian:</strong><br />
Yes, I do know that Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel for years. This is not a secret being hidden away by an anti-Israeli press. It is a well-known fact, and it is regularly mentioned in newspaper reports.</p>
<p>I disagree with most of the arguments made in the Jerusalem Post article. For example:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hamas&#8217; deliberate use of human shields, which makes civilian casualties inevitable</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211; So if some Hamas gunmen take up their positions in a building full of civilians, then the Israeli Defence Force (IDF), have *no choice* but to blow up that building? Even if it is a school?</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas!&#8221; was the slogan shouted at a Dutch rally against the Gaza war last week.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211; This kind of crazed anti-Semitism is in no way representative of Westerners who criticise Israeli military actions. Just because you can cite one example of extreme anti-Semitism, this doesn&#8217;t mean that all or even most criticism of Israel is of this type. One protestor&#8217;s racial hatred doesn&#8217;t invalidate everyone else&#8217;s reasonable criticism.</p>
<blockquote><p>There is a known double standard among some Westerners whereby only Western actions merit condemnation, while non-Western thugs get a pass.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211; I think that this bias or &#8220;double-standard&#8221; in protest is quite reasonable. I wouldn&#8217;t bother to protest the actions of Islamic fundamentalists, dictators, Kim Jong Il etc - because it is already clear that I don&#8217;t support them. Politically, economically, culturally, I have nothing to do with them. But when a Western or Western-backed government commits atrocities then I am somehow implicated. Especially if the government of my own country is directly or indirectly involved. So on these occasions I need to protest to show that I don&#8217;t support or accept these actions. And I have much more chance of influencing my own goverment, then influencing, say Hamas.</p>
<blockquote><p>Hence the underlying message of these demonstrations is not &#8220;we object to killing Palestinians,&#8221; but rather &#8220;we support killing Jews.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211; No, that&#8217;s not what I think. And most other critics of Israel don&#8217;t think this either. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like Hamas. </p>
<p>I think that the killing of Israeli civilians is a stupid, brutal strategy by a bankrupt military force. </p>
<p>But there&#8217;s no way that these actions justify all the many types of violence that the Palestinians are subjected to by the IDF.</p>
<p>I apologise if my references to the Holocaust bring up painful memories for you. I didn&#8217;t mean to cause offence. I only mentioned the Holocaust because this comparison with recent Israeli military actions seemed to be suggested at certain points in the film Waltz with Bashir. I&#8217;d never thought about this comparison explicitly, so I wanted to use the film as an opportunity to explore whether I there was some sort of unconscious connection here, hidden beneath my thoughts about Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Israeli civilian</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44456</link>
		<dc:creator>Israeli civilian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44456</guid>
		<description>To John Mansfield 
Israel was attacted by missiles and rokets of Hamas   on Israeli cities for 8 years, and Isure that during the last 8 years you didn't about it. the purpose of this war were to finish those attacts and it worked. IDF tried to avoid strikes on innocent people but the problem is that Hamas use innocent people for human shield and Gaza it is the most crowded in the world. I  am very sad about the innocent people who have killed but I know that IDF goal was just hurt the Hamas militants, this situation is very complicated. Israel want peace, but Hamas avoid it.

You mentioned the holocaust in this artical. the holocaust is  big trauma for all Isreali, I can't explain how much. My grandpa were there and his weight were approximately 15 kilos when his age were 18, and it is enouth show how he suffered there. We don't want it to happen again! one israeli killed its a big tragic for us and at the holocaust 6 million jaws killed the same number of jaws who live in Israel now. Now Iran want to develop nuclear bombs, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declares about destroy Israel and Hamas and Hyzballa declares about Israel destruction too. The possibility of second   holocaus for jaws is really open. 
if you realy want to know about israei side just read this

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292929480&#38;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


and the Holocaust it is tragic that you can't compare to anything, so I ask from everyone  to avoid  these comparisons


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John Mansfield<br />
Israel was attacted by missiles and rokets of Hamas   on Israeli cities for 8 years, and Isure that during the last 8 years you didn&#8217;t about it. the purpose of this war were to finish those attacts and it worked. IDF tried to avoid strikes on innocent people but the problem is that Hamas use innocent people for human shield and Gaza it is the most crowded in the world. I  am very sad about the innocent people who have killed but I know that IDF goal was just hurt the Hamas militants, this situation is very complicated. Israel want peace, but Hamas avoid it.</p>
<p>You mentioned the holocaust in this artical. the holocaust is  big trauma for all Isreali, I can&#8217;t explain how much. My grandpa were there and his weight were approximately 15 kilos when his age were 18, and it is enouth show how he suffered there. We don&#8217;t want it to happen again! one israeli killed its a big tragic for us and at the holocaust 6 million jaws killed the same number of jaws who live in Israel now. Now Iran want to develop nuclear bombs, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declares about destroy Israel and Hamas and Hyzballa declares about Israel destruction too. The possibility of second   holocaus for jaws is really open.<br />
if you realy want to know about israei side just read this</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292929480&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" rel="nofollow">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292929480&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull</a></p>
<p>and the Holocaust it is tragic that you can&#8217;t compare to anything, so I ask from everyone  to avoid  these comparisons</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44432</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44432</guid>
		<description>I just can't look past the numbers:

"More than 1,000 Gazans and 13 Israelis have reportedly died so far in the conflict."

&lt;a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7829912.stm" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7829912.stm&lt;/a&gt;

I can't possibly see the justice in such massive, and asymmetric, violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just can&#8217;t look past the numbers:</p>
<p>&#8220;More than 1,000 Gazans and 13 Israelis have reportedly died so far in the conflict.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7829912.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7829912.stm</a></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t possibly see the justice in such massive, and asymmetric, violence.</p>
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		<title>By: Asia</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44422</link>
		<dc:creator>Asia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44422</guid>
		<description>Max, the us media hardly posts anything about casualties on lebanon's side...israeal recieves the most aid from the united states and lebanon recieves a minimal amount from saudi arabia and other arab countries. In 1947 when british controlled that area they gave that land to jews why? Because no other country would take them in so slowly the jews started to push the arabs out and those who refused were killed...the suprise attack on gaza? What was that about? Israel said they wouldn't attack until sunday they caught gaza off guard by attacking the following day in the middle of the afternoon when children were coming back from school. Why shouldn't gaza have weapons? It makes more sense for israel to come destroy their land if they do have weapons i</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, the us media hardly posts anything about casualties on lebanon&#8217;s side&#8230;israeal recieves the most aid from the united states and lebanon recieves a minimal amount from saudi arabia and other arab countries. In 1947 when british controlled that area they gave that land to jews why? Because no other country would take them in so slowly the jews started to push the arabs out and those who refused were killed&#8230;the suprise attack on gaza? What was that about? Israel said they wouldn&#8217;t attack until sunday they caught gaza off guard by attacking the following day in the middle of the afternoon when children were coming back from school. Why shouldn&#8217;t gaza have weapons? It makes more sense for israel to come destroy their land if they do have weapons i</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44402</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44402</guid>
		<description>Max, I think that people criticise Israel more than the Phalangists because Israel is a powerful nation, while the Phalangists are a political group within a less powerful and less stable nation, Lebanon.

You said:

"I feel for the Palestinian people. But their enemy is not Israel. It’s the Tyrannical leaders across the middle east who run their countries keeping their people down."

... But I don't think this is a realistic view, given that the Palestinians voted for Hamas as their political respresentatives, while Israel have been keeping them under seige by blockading their borders.

I don't think that Hamas are particularly *good* representatives of the Palestinian people, but I can see why they may have seemed the most attractive option available in the election.

I think that Palestinian militants and the Israeli government have been getting tit-for-tat revenge against each other since as long as I can remember. But I think that it would be easier for the Israelis to change their stance and make peace, because they are the more powerful party in the conflict. I think that they hold most of the cards, while the Palestinians are backed into a corner.

You seem to assume that I am an innocent, "uninformed" person. But in fact I have made quite an effort to educate myself about the situation. 

Though I don't agree, I appreciate your comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, I think that people criticise Israel more than the Phalangists because Israel is a powerful nation, while the Phalangists are a political group within a less powerful and less stable nation, Lebanon.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;I feel for the Palestinian people. But their enemy is not Israel. It’s the Tyrannical leaders across the middle east who run their countries keeping their people down.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230; But I don&#8217;t think this is a realistic view, given that the Palestinians voted for Hamas as their political respresentatives, while Israel have been keeping them under seige by blockading their borders.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that Hamas are particularly *good* representatives of the Palestinian people, but I can see why they may have seemed the most attractive option available in the election.</p>
<p>I think that Palestinian militants and the Israeli government have been getting tit-for-tat revenge against each other since as long as I can remember. But I think that it would be easier for the Israelis to change their stance and make peace, because they are the more powerful party in the conflict. I think that they hold most of the cards, while the Palestinians are backed into a corner.</p>
<p>You seem to assume that I am an innocent, &#8220;uninformed&#8221; person. But in fact I have made quite an effort to educate myself about the situation. </p>
<p>Though I don&#8217;t agree, I appreciate your comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/2008/11/waltz-with-bashir/#comment-44399</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.totalcardboard.com/blogs/?p=228#comment-44399</guid>
		<description>Your problem with Israel may stem from the presentation of the facts. 

Yes, what happened in Lebanon was terrible, but where is everyone tackling about the Phanlanges and what they did. 

Just like why is the whole world not talking about the 120 or so Palestinians that Hamas slaughtered in one week to come to power. Or the people that they're shooting the knee caps off of right now for showing any decent against Hamas. 

Israel is NOT a war mongerer. From it's outset in '48 it was attacked. Every way Israel goes into is caused by aggression from it's neighbours. 

I feel for the Palestinian people. But their enemy is not Israel. It's the Tyrannical leaders across the middle east who run their countries keeping their people down. 

How would you feel if your neighbouring country sent children to blow them selves up causing a world of tension for a country trying to go about daily routines. 

How about the fact that Israel NEVER expelled the arabs. If you think I'm lying that may be because the media you get your news from are for some strange reason pro-arab. Arabs backed by Iran and Syria. Arabs who condone the attacks on Bali, Madrid, London, New York - not to mention in Iraq where they kill innocent Arabs in their suicide bombs at far greater rates than the civilian causalities in Gaza. 

And maybe you are unaware that Palestinians fight from hospitals and residential areas and then cry out when civilians are killed. Just like Saddam tried to defend his power plants by tying civilians to fences so he could blame the US of attacking civilians. 

War is never pretty. NEVER. 

It would be wonderful if we could irradicate it, but it's not going to happen whilst we have fanatical Muslims who want to kill all Jews. And when they've finished with Jews it'll onto Christians because they believe that they are need to be converted or killed to. 

Wonderful that you're a caring person, but I think that your sentiments should be more informed. But you're not alone. Alot of the world has got this situation all wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your problem with Israel may stem from the presentation of the facts. </p>
<p>Yes, what happened in Lebanon was terrible, but where is everyone tackling about the Phanlanges and what they did. </p>
<p>Just like why is the whole world not talking about the 120 or so Palestinians that Hamas slaughtered in one week to come to power. Or the people that they&#8217;re shooting the knee caps off of right now for showing any decent against Hamas. </p>
<p>Israel is NOT a war mongerer. From it&#8217;s outset in &#8216;48 it was attacked. Every way Israel goes into is caused by aggression from it&#8217;s neighbours. </p>
<p>I feel for the Palestinian people. But their enemy is not Israel. It&#8217;s the Tyrannical leaders across the middle east who run their countries keeping their people down. </p>
<p>How would you feel if your neighbouring country sent children to blow them selves up causing a world of tension for a country trying to go about daily routines. </p>
<p>How about the fact that Israel NEVER expelled the arabs. If you think I&#8217;m lying that may be because the media you get your news from are for some strange reason pro-arab. Arabs backed by Iran and Syria. Arabs who condone the attacks on Bali, Madrid, London, New York - not to mention in Iraq where they kill innocent Arabs in their suicide bombs at far greater rates than the civilian causalities in Gaza. </p>
<p>And maybe you are unaware that Palestinians fight from hospitals and residential areas and then cry out when civilians are killed. Just like Saddam tried to defend his power plants by tying civilians to fences so he could blame the US of attacking civilians. </p>
<p>War is never pretty. NEVER. </p>
<p>It would be wonderful if we could irradicate it, but it&#8217;s not going to happen whilst we have fanatical Muslims who want to kill all Jews. And when they&#8217;ve finished with Jews it&#8217;ll onto Christians because they believe that they are need to be converted or killed to. </p>
<p>Wonderful that you&#8217;re a caring person, but I think that your sentiments should be more informed. But you&#8217;re not alone. Alot of the world has got this situation all wrong.</p>
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